Framework in Place - Not Done Yet
By now we all know there is talk of a 3-way deal between the Red Sox, Pirates and Marlins. The main players involved are Manny Ramirez, Jason Bay and Jeremy Hermida.
The Pirates wind up with Hermida
The Marlins wind up with Ramirez
The Red Sox wind up with Bay.
.299/.398/.529 - 20 HR, 68 RBI, 365 ABs- Ramirez
.282/.375/.519 - 22 HR, 64 RBI, 393 ABs - Bay
Those are their 2008 stats. Pretty similar with Ramirez getting the edge (more production in less at bats). But otherwise, Bay isn't a significant downgrade based on 2008 alone. Bay is signed through 2009 (approx $9mm in 2009) meaning the Red Sox could either work out an extension with him or let him go (most likely as a type A free agent) and get 2 picks for him.
A look at a larger sample size is a good idea, so lets take the past 5 years (2004-2008):
.303/.401/.573 - 163 HR, 532 RBI, 2419 ABs - Ramirez
.281/.374/.515 - 136 HR, 440 RBI, 2511 ABs - Bay
Again, nod to Ramirez (landslide). But when you factor in age (Bay is 29, Ramirez is 36), and you look at Ramirez's production last year and this, the trade is a bit more even, but certainly Ramirez is the better hitter. Where the trade potentially swings to the Red Sox favor is defensively, a hustle standpoint and a clubhouse standpoint, all vague and near impossible things to measure to be sure but important nonetheless.
This is a no-win situation for Boston but I think their best move is to get as much as possible in a move for Ramirez. If after taking in offers they feel they are a better team with him, so be it. I'm glad to learn though that they are kicking the tires and if Bay indeed is an option, I'd do it.
Comments
They need to move Manny out, Andy. He's aging, declining and Manny ('nuff said, no?).
Same way they had to move Nomar ...
Posted by: Mitchell![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://yankeesredsox.com/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 31, 2008 10:39 AM
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Mitchell, I have come to agree that they should move him.
Completely different than Nomar though. Manny is producing and playing. Nomar had only played 38 games with the Sox before the trade in '04. Manny, for what it is worth, is playing (most nights).
Posted by: blmeanie![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://yankeesredsox.com/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 31, 2008 11:22 AM
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blmeanie, I think it is like Nomar. Nomar wasn't playing and you could argue that while Manny is playing, he isn't playing hard. An there is no guarantee he will actually continue to play if not traded.
Gammons said the Red Sox aren't sure Manny will even play 15-20 more games this year if not traded. Wow. Just a throw away comment from PG, but scary nonetheless.
Posted by: andy![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://yankeesredsox.com/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 31, 2008 01:50 PM
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Blmeanie - my reference to Nomar was that he was "in a snit" also and communicating it. Sitting on the bench when his teammate hit a dinger or during close plays at the plate. He was a heck of a lot more subtle than Manny, but you knew he wanted out.
Manny has run his mouth to the press about this and apparently gotten in ownerships face. This is about as ugly as it can get. Reminds of Sheffield - in some ways - when he started sniping at Torre. Cashman couldn't move Sheff out fast enough.
I'm amazed that Theo hasn't moved Manny out. Amazed.
Yeah, I'm a born & raised Yankkes fan, but what's happening with Manny just isn't good for the game of baseball.
Posted by: Mitchell![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://yankeesredsox.com/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 31, 2008 04:24 PM
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Andy/Peter - the beginning of the post above by FAIAZ
"No matter who the Red*** get for Manny,"
is unnecessary unless it truly is a mistype. I bet it isn't as it is from a clear Yankee fan who uses a RedSox (with a S) post to praise his Yankees.
One of the things I like about your site and why I come back is the civil discussions with the regulars you have here. While I don't agree with Mitchell all the time, or with you Peter, lol, I enjoy the banter and civil discussions.
I'm a big boy, I don't currently allow my kids to read this site (they don't care to be honest) and I could handle worse, I just don't think that is what you guys are trying to accomplish here.
Spoke my mind, will probably be claimed as a typing error anyway...
Posted by: blmeanie![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://yankeesredsox.com/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 31, 2008 05:43 PM
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blmeanie, I somehow missed that one. I deleted his post...and updated yours.
Judging by Faiaz's tone, I doubt it was a typo.
Thanks for your words on the site, that is essentially our goal. It is great to disagree with Mitchell or Peter or Me. That's what life is about discussion and debate. At the end of the day we all have our opinions and it is great to get them out in the open. Let's just keep it civil. Faiaz will learn someday.
Thanks again.
Posted by: andy![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://yankeesredsox.com/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 31, 2008 10:07 PM
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