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My uncles used to tell me stories about doing almost anything, even some things that were not things I'd want MY sons to do today, just to get to see a ball game. It was a wonderful passion in the midst of the Great Depression. For them, it was an escape from misery and desperation.

Yep, it's a great great game. 7 times out of ten you stink at the plate, doesn't matter if you make ten times more than the guy you're facing, it's just a matter of fractions of an inch that determines if it's a long dinger or a foul pop up, a ground ball with eyes, a dying quail or a laser down the line. A called third strike or a slow walk to first base. A nasty sinker or a cookie. A breaking ball that breaks too early, too late or just right enough to be called the highest compliment - "nasty".

It's a great great game.

Thank you, Peter, for this post. Well said. And much needed, too, while we are ensnared deep in the throes of winter. There's a timelessness to baseball, a permanence, a sense of historical continuity that other sports just don't hold, at least not for me. That's not to say that the other sports don't have long histories; of course they do. But they don't have the the same hold on the imagination (from a historical perspective) that baseball does. I'll bet you there is far more passionate debate about who was the greatest baseball player, or pitcher, or hitter than there are about football, basketball or hockey players. For those of us with baseball in the blood, baseball's past is more alive and relevant (and even sacred) for us than that of football, basketball or hockey. To cite one example, baseball fans get so upset with PEDs and how they've compromised the integrity of baseball's hallowed records. There is nowhere near the same outrage about football, yet football is arguably so much more infused with them. Compared to baseball, football gets a free pass on PEDs, and always has. To cite another example, look at how many people strive to see baseball games in as many of the MLB cities as they can around the country. They want to see the historical old parks like Wrigley, Fenway and Yankee Stadium. They want to see the beautiful new parks like Camden Yards, Safeco Field and AT&T Park. You don't get that with the other sports.

In terms of sheer numbers, football is more popular in this country than baseball, and has been for a long time. But football will never hold the same appeal for me that baseball does. I can lose myself in the history of baseball in a way that I can't with the other sports. Man, how I wish I could have seen Koufax and Gibson; DiMaggio and Williams; Gehrig and Ruth; Willie, Mickey and the Duke.

Let's get a conversation going to distract ourselves from the dreary cold until pitchers and catchers. We can chime in about who we think was the greatest pitcher, hitter, fielder, all around player. Based on what we've read and/or seen. The great thing about a debate like this is there's no "right" or "wrong" answer. And how many baseball fans can resist a conversation like this? I'll start off with a few votes:

Greatest all around player: Willie Mays. Five tools. 'Nuff said.

Greatest SP: Sandy Koufax. Didn't have the longevity of some others, but had an extraordinary run for five seasons or so. And he was money in the post-season.

Greatest single-season pitching performance: I'm torn here between Guidry/78 and Gooden/85. I'm limiting myself to players/teams I followed, which means NY teams after 74. Guidry carried the Yanks to the WS in 78. Gooden was magical in 85.

Mitchell/Greg

Great comments and Greg I love the debate. I am going to disagree on the greatest player. Mays is certainly in my Top-3, but I have to give it to Ruth because he could also pitch. 714 homers and 94 wins does it for me. Plus, he hit more home runs than every team in the AL in 1920 which is just amazing.

Sandy is up there, but I would include Walter Johnson in the conversation. (I would have put Roger Clemens into this conversation a couple of years ago!)

For greatest years I have seen I would go with Gooden in 1985 or Pedro in 1999. Guidry in '78 was great, but I think those two were better. I still can picture Gooden dropping that curveball in and just freezing players at the plate.

I am going to add a category to your comment, favorite player I have seen. I wish I could have seen the greats, but like you mentioned, but I saw a few. For sheer excitement, Rickey Henderson in the 80's would be my choice of a hitter. Put him on first and just watch what happens.

On the mound it would have to be Nolan Ryan. I lived in Dallas for a few years towards the end of his career and I used to go to every start of his I could. Watching him throw that fastball was amazing.

And of the current players, I would put Mariano front and center. There is truly something magical about sitting at the Stadium and listening hearing the first notes of "Enter Sandman" and seeing #42 trot in.

Peter, nice post. You may have mentioned it at some point on this site, but the passing of John Updike was a big loss to many baseball fans and Red Sox in particular.

Here is the link to his essay on Ted Williams' last MLB game:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/hub_fans_bid_kid_adieu_article.shtml

I really can't disagree with either Ruth or Mays but I would vote for Aaron. 5ish tools and never relied on moonshot numbers in a given season. His standard deviation on his stats was tiny and that is a tribute to his consistency and greatness.

Best pitcher is really tough, I said it in the HOF post, Maddux would get my vote. He certainly has been the smartest pitcher ever...ever. His 1995 season ranks there with Pedro, Gooden and Guidry and Clemens 1986 in the modern era. To me the greatest indicator of the Maddux 1995 season is the number of groundball outs he fielded. Slow rollers to the pitcher was his career visual for me and that is a testament to how he fooled hitters.

Best pitcher? For a starter (yeah, I know, I stretched the question a bit), I'd have to go with Warren Spahn. I have yet to see anyone make so many hitters look so clumsy at the plate. He wasn't fast, nasty or even mean looking on the mound, didn't pitch inside to get you dirty - he just beat you by doing what you didn't expect. Masterful. Koufax was great, Maddux was too, but Spahnie was, in my book, the greatest.

For a reliever? I'd have to go with Mo. I have no idea just how this guy has been so successful with 1 pitch (which he can make break "just enough" in different directions). He is so focused, so unfazed by pressure that he seems inhuman to me. He flat out amazes me.

Here's the answer to a question nobody asked: Johnny Sain was the best pitching coach - but you could also make a good case for Leo "the rocker" Mazzone.

Best position player? I'll defer to you guys and your already stated choices.

should go to best at each position, do a position a day, gets us to pitchers and catchers reporting ?

cmon Peter and Andy, you could even take credit for my great idea :)

Mitchell - you mention "the rocker" did anybody catch the news story from last week where John Rocker somehow ended up at a W hotel opening in Atlanta and basically attacked the most prominent radio sports talk host in town. He has called Rocker to task over the years and they've had Rocker on the air many times (calls) and always ends up in a screaming match. BTW - the host originated in Boston or Newton I should say and brings a Boston flare to the show. I actually think I played against him in high school hoops long ago.

here is a link to the local paper's site : http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2009/01/23/john_rocker_fight.html

Bl- I saw that story, Rocker needs to go away.

As for the best at each spot, I would probably go with this...
C- Bench
1B- Gehrig
2B- Jackie Robinson
SS- Ripken
3B- A-Rod
OF- Mantle, Mays and Aaron

best at each spot, blmeanie style:

C- Bench
1B- Gehrig
2B- Hornsby
SS- Banks
3B- Rose
OF- Williams, Mays and Aaron

I don't think A-Rod gets the nod yet, 5 out of 15 seasons at 3B puts him as SS in my book. Gotta be retired to make my list too.

Not to go off topic too much but was Piazza juiced? I get what Bench was but statistically Piazza blows, smashes, and obliterates Bench. Different era, I know, adjust and he still blows Bench away offensively. Not too many awesome catchers over the history are there? Maybe Mickey Cochrane needs some love, 2 time MVP, 6 top 10 mvp voting.

Since I started it:

C - Bench
1B - Gehrig
2B - Morgan (edges out Hornsby)
3B - Schmidt (edges out Eddie Matthews)
SS - Wagner (edges out A-Rod)
OF - Ruth, Mays, Williams (Honorable Mention: Aaron, Musial, DiMaggio)

Sorry for cheating -- I couldn't resist the urge to sneak in the extra names. And I definitely reserve the right to change my mind . . .

Let's keep it going: top 5 RHP and top 5 LHPs (let's restrict ourselves to starters for now).

Also, as an aside, I mentioned earlier that Guidry carried the Yanks in '78. Well, check out Denny McLain, 1968 Tigers. 31-6, 1.96. Wow! Interesting story: Roger Maris told his Cardinal teammates in the 1968 WS that Mickey Lolich was the pitcher to fear on that Tigers staff. He had a point, too -- Lolich won 3 games in that 7-game classic.

Good lists guys, but BL A-Rod has more games at third than Rose did!

As for LHP and RHP, here are my top-5 (in no particular order)

RHP- Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Greg Maddux, Walter Johnson and Tom Seaver

LHP- Koufax, Carlton, Spahn, Randy Johnson and Carl Hubbell

ok, you caught my Rose error, only baseball card that comes to mind with him is 1974 (colorful cards), he is playing 3B and the pitch must be going in as he is intently looking into home plate (I think).

Eddie Mathews was my first choice but I thought about Rose's legacy of hits etc. and put him in.

Greg - Morgan is a decent pick, didn't occur to me as I have excluded him from my thoughts for his years and years of anti-RedSox bias on the air.

It's funny, but I think about 95% of baseball fans can't stand Joe Morgan on ESPN games. Yet somehow he keeps doing them. And ESPN is adding Steve Phillips to the booth which will make Sunday Night Baseball watchable only with the mute button engaged.

I got:

RHP: Matthewson, W. Johnson, Feller, Seaver, Gibson
LHP: Grove, Hubbell, Spahn, Koufax, Carlton

Peter: You told us that Ruth and Mays are in your top 3. Who's the third? (And what's the order?)

Mine: Mays, Ruth, Gehrig

Is it time for Pitchers and Catchers yet?

Greg- I would add Aaron and order it Ruth, Mays and Aaron

this may appear biased but Williams has to be in the OF group...

.344 lifetime avg
521 HR (with 2 years of prime lost to wartime)

.482 obp
.634 slugging

couldn't we make a softball lineup and have 4 OF - cause I don't know who to throw out.

BL-

This is an American League site, so feel free to add a DH.

fair enough, Babe, you are my DH

Ah, OK. We can put out RHP and LHP? Yeah, that works. I still like Spahn as the leftie - and Maddux as the RHP. I admit to a weakness for crafty pitchers.

Most exciting pitcher I ever saw? Koufax. Had great seats ... never forget it. Sandy grunted every pitch, had a very violent motion, every batter seemed a bit scared to be facing him (he was a bit wild at times). And the catcher's glove seem to be VERY lound that day.

If I had to pick between Aaron and Williams in the OF, I'd have to go with Williams. Williams. Mays and Ruth.

BL,

I hear you. It's absolutely killing me to leave guys off the list. BTW, curious, do you know how Williams compared to DiMaggio defensively? I think I read that Williams played the Green Monster well (or am I confusing him with Yaz?), but my overall impression was that DiMaggio was the superior defender.

Peter,

I can't accept the DH. Only been in effect since 1973, and only in the AL. I still think it's a travesty. Plus, with so many players doing part-time DH, part-time defensive duty, it becomes a real mess trying to sort out who should be considered a DH. We've got enough troubles with the outfielders. Now that I'm ranting, I don't much care for artificial surface, either. And don't even get me started on domes! Come to think of it, I'm none too thrilled with this wild-card business. Of course, I think they should at least play all Sat/Sun WS games during the day, so . . . maybe you should pay no mind to my ravings. Anyway, thanks for letting me get all this off my chest. It's been building up for a long time now. It's a fine public service you and Andy are offering, here.

Greg

Good rant, reminds me of "Bull Durham" (I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter.) I never saw baseball without a DH, so I have never been bothered by it. Plus, watching pitchers hit is boring.

I totally agree about domes and turf. I have been to the Astrodome and the Metrodome and there is something fundamentally wrong about being inside to watch a baseball game.