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Guess we now know why that big huggable lug the locals affectionately call Big Papi is uh, um, well uh - big for a reason? We also now know why he was using the future tense for that February quote.

I'm not gloating Peter but I AM looking forward to laughing really loudly when someone starts ripping me about A-Rod the juicer. I can't wait ...

Good point Mitchell, the Red Sox fans can't hold that one over us anymore.

No, I'm not gloating. This is a sad day for baseball. At the least, it might show any young players thinking of using HGH or steroids, that one day, the world will know.

You have to blame those wimps Congress men for having been abused and lied to in front of the whole world by those three reprobates, The guys who "testified" should have been deported and sent to prison, then MLB should ban them for life...no punishment means "PLAYBALL"!! needles up!! Hey Ortiz lost his voice, NO COMMENT>>you could not shut him up, he would talk to any and every body, now maybe it was a milk shake in the DR when he was a youth.. garbage pail!! Varitek , pedoria et.al next up.. confessions anyone. I heard a load of pregnancy test have been delievered to Fenway?/ Peter and Mitchell can you guys conferm/.. Dr has become the new "NEEDLE PARK"

Paul- I think that is the best thing that could come out of all this.

wow, BWP, relax. If anybody is stupid enough to take them in the last couple of years, as you suggest Pedroia and Varitek have, they should be banned for being stupid. Yep, I include the smartest of all, Manny. Being jealous of a very talented player like Pedroia is natural I guess, not sure why the outburst on Varitek though. An notably downward trajectory player like him doesn't really fit the bill does it?

Ortiz has to answer some questions, no doubt. Easy to assume Millar and possibly Damon along with Manny and Ortiz using back then. Testing was in place in 2005 (I think) and later so I doubt anybody (except said morons) would be gaining advantage right now.

Mitchell, I understand your point of view, however the cloud will be darker over A-Rod because of his run on history that will likely happen unless he continues to break down physically.

I for one would not mind seeing greats wind down their careers in their late 30's and become mortal.

blmeanie, good day, this not about redsox players or yankee players, neither of which went before congress, i am a baseball fan , i view the game in its purest sense. the nerve on these guys who lied, they felt and still feel, above all reproach, they destroy a game historically based on stats..and idols..they set the bar so high for young players trying to compete and break in pro sports, they maybe they say ,hey i need to do these drugs to keep up to par..all for extreme greed and ego...we pay at the gate so they can make 10s of millions. they took this money under false pretense, every contract that can be proven to signed while these guy took these drugs should be null and void.it was pure fraud..i don't think i have to site the guys in the MLB whos #s are way down..how many million did manny lose, So the greedest of guys said i'm getting paid regardless of how i do in this contract, why take a shot, i'll just say this hurts or no comment. you are thinking as a fan to another fan, which guy has the worst case, stop comparing , they are all opertunist that fooled us all.. you don't feel duped?? I do, I was a hugh Arod fan way before he can to NY, I was even a bigger giambi fan, when we got him I drank Crystal rose all night..hall of fame a yankee.. A real garbage pail.. 30mil for arod... if i owned that team i would be in court suing to get out from that insane contract..they signed. a guy who sold them an empty box.. i love baseball, but i am a yankee fan.. justify this bonds sosa ,next to ruth aaron mays , these guys stats made them irrelavant .thats why i am so bitter with these bums.. ortiz lied today again like we are little kids, another great spokes person for our children. what do you think ted williams would have said to ortiz,,if these guys never made it to the major league, what do you think they would be doing for work today... hmmm. i feel robbed, for the love of the game, think they will make any more movies about baseball players of our day?? our heros now come out of a syringe..

BL? I respectfully disagree with you about "darkest cloud" as I think this has less to do with records than it has to do with being honest with the fans and then the game.

Manny, it is now revealed, wasn't just trying to stay horny this past winter when he was taking those drugs; he was obviously trying to restart his gonads after having juiced them to a diminshed size and state (pardon me for being blunt here). Not only that, but this has apparently been going on with this guy since at least 2003? C'mon BL, that's a nasty and *** ongoing *** pattern of deception. I say BOOO to him, he's a chronic juicer. He won't talk about it, he won't own his mistakes which I find unpardonable.

Ortiz? He has permitted himself to be positioned and marketed as the big lovable innocent who all along and even very recently has proclaimed his innocence loud and long - only to be "outed" as a juicer. Just know that I really dislike guys who play the innocent when they are anything but. This is not a Ty Cobb (the miserable SOB) we're talking about - this is Big Papi! I'll wait to see what Ortiz says ... but Papi's gotta lotta 'splaining to do.

Alex? Yep, he got caught, then he stood in front of the world at a microphone and owned up to his mistake.

And Paul? I would add that when I talk to my kids what I tell them is that, even if you're SURE you can't get caught, it's still the wrong thing to do and the wrong way to play the game. The most important person you're trying to impress, the one person who needs to like you and respect you the most is ... you. It stuns them when I say that because it basically means that their opinions of themselves are, in the end, more important than are mine - but, so far, so good with them - yeah, I'm a lucky Dad.

noted, but please refrain from believing Arod took them EVER SO BRIEFLY as he said.

I believe I did in fact say Ortiz has some explaining to do. Who do you think maintained belief he could have been innocent, me or you? Therefore who does he have to explain himself to, you? Nope, me and the other dopes that held out hope.

Wow Mitchell very well said, but that is only my opinion. you are a baseball fan first..I thought papi explained it all already??? the protein drink when he was a youth??and he would never do that to his family or the game. he does not owe baseball fans any reasons..Did anyone really think before this that he did NOT juice??? fan or no fan of his et. al??? come on.. it hurts but it is real.. it is like a person in love and know they are fooling around, but keep looking away not to see it in front of them...As far as being jealous , we have a second baseman.. hmm i think his name is wait a minute ...cano.. and he is also on my DR watch list.. my opinions are just that when it comes to guys like swisher, thats why i ask for info and opinions, my mind can be changed when facts are offered, i was a yaz fan too. a conigliaro fan a lynn fan these guys were great competitors, worthy adversaries.. that what makes the game great, comparing our players against yours and so on... but these frauds stole it from us for greed...

The thing is none of these guys have been honest before they were caught. A-Rod told Katie Couric he was clean and then he got caught. Andy Pettitte claimed to have only done HGH once until it came out he did it more than that.

I agree with Mitchell, it's the sanctimonious attitude that bothers me the most.

BL? I don't believe much of what A-Rod says except when he says he was "young and stupid" to take PEDs.

I have been, all along, very much respectful and aware that Manny and Ortiz were one the best best duos ever to play the game - rivaling Gehrig and Ruth. Yep, and I admitted that to my neighboring Sox fans and I always tipped my hat to them for being THAT GOOD, even when they were beating my beloved Yankees. Please believe me that those two guys now owe me, as a fan of the game (regardless of where I was born or for which team I root) - an apology. I believed and respected them, out loud and in public their abilities also. Does that make me a dope alongside you? Yep I guess it does.

You weren't a dope Mitchell. Be honest, not many people cared whether they were or weren't doing PEDs or HGH or whatever...wait for it...until Bonds passed Aaron.

The 70 HRs by McGwire would have been ok, even Sosa's multiple 60's. But when Bonds took on 755, that was the game changer for everybody.

Would you have been as outraged? Maybe, but my guess is not. I think the passing of Aaron was like the lack of WMD's in Iraq. If WMDs had been found, all would have been ok with our foreign policies, but there weren't found and now whispers of lies and deceit in Washington...

Had Bonds fallen short somehow, would the witch hunts continue? Yes but to a much less intense focus by everybody. That is my opinion.

they all are trying to minimize their guilt, why? maybe they think we were born at night and i mean last night.. they feel they can continue to lie.. andy was this religious ,family man.. "i did it because my arm hurt only" not for the 16mil a year. or future contracts, he did it to feel better a boy took one for the team..never would have signed this bum.. he sent his father to go cop drugs... clemens had his wife get hit in her ass in his bedroom ...lot of class mr, clemens too bad its all low.. and lets not forget about that cowboy, everybody is wrong , how thick is his chest.. and his attidude towards more govt. people when sworn in.. we all have the right to say want we want about these bums.. they have forfited any right to explain... they owe no reasons to us ,it will all be vomit that comes from more lies..how much more wax does arod want to use on his eyebrows..lets get the whole list out and be done with this torture, trade deadline ,what trade .who gets who, well these guys did it again, stole some great time from us at the deadline..we were talking "BASEBALL AGAIN> SAD

I meant to post this earlier but got caught up being emotional in other posts

Canseco's quotes today are interesting

#1: "And I'll tell you this, Major League Baseball is going to have a big, big problem on their hands when they find out they have a Hall of Famer who's used."

#2: "If you were in the game in the last 20 years, there's a 95 percent chance you were knowingly using something,'' Canseco said. "I said 80 percent back then because that was the number of players that I knew were on. But that number was greater."

#3: "What I speak out of my mouth is the truth. It burns like fire. Just remember, I have never lied about this subject."

I looked at the hall of famers this afternoon after reading #1, Rickey Henderson comes quickest to mind. #2 above - wow, hard to imagine it being that high but why not? #3 above- so far so right...sigh.

blmeanie on your last post we find common ground, .great comparison. but for me the * on maris was of some merit, 154 to 162 last day of the year i believe.. it took how many years for anyone else to hit sixty, all of a sudden 40 becomes the average and 70 plus. by three guys in the 60s up. at the same time.. bonds passing aaron was a watershed, for most but for me it was all the guys in mlb that were in the 40 plus range.. it just diluted and urinated on some great idols.. side point in ww2 we would ask potential spies in the battle field baseball trivia,,,thats how close we loved our heros in baseball..if you didn't know some facts you were in a little trouble..baseball got us through depression, kept fathers and sons ever so close his heros were my heros. i have a little guy, whom does he idolize today...baseball ,with the size of these guys has become the WWF.

BL- I have to admit, I was "young and stupid" watching baseball. I was thrilled when Bonds broke the single-season home run record in 2001 because I thought he had done it cleanly versus what McGwire and Sosa had done.

But after reading "Game Of Shadows" and seeing what happened with various players I became very, very cynical. I view everything that happened on the baseball diamond over the last 20 years with incredible suspicion.
That doesn't mean I won't be very upset if say Mariano Rivera gets busted for steroids tomorrow, but I have spent the last few years wondering who didn't do steroids, assuming that everyone did do them.
The players are to blame in my mind. Time and again they have resisted testing and let the bad examples take the headlines. I wish someone had the guts to stand up and say enough, but I think the players are going to let things keep going as is. After all, their salaries keep going up.
And, Canseco gets no credit in my book despite the fact that he "never lied about this issue" He cheated the game and that should be his legacy. Sadly, he will have plenty of company.

Good guess BL but not quite right: I started paying attention when McGwire first defied "baseball reality" with his season. Something seemed truly unreal about the guy. I had seen too many players over too many seasons to believe his performance was natural.

Bonds? Never liked the guy's attitude from the first time I read about him and his treatment of the fans WAY back when. When he passed Aaron, a favorite of mine from the days when I followed the Milwaukee Braves - I was resigned to the fact the world had changed. Not angry, resigned.

The day that I first got angry about all of this was the day that McGwire sat in front of Congress and side-stepped every question that came his way. Why then? Cause I have a really hard time accepting BS. Making a mistake, cheating, is one thing but lying about it, refusing to admit it and apologize for it - that's when I get wound up. Want a silly example? Your wife catches you cheating. Do you deny and lie, say something stupid like "it wasn't me" - or do you say, "You're right, I'm wrong, please accept my heart felt apologies". Another example? I would have been much better with Bill Clinton's legacy if only the guy hadn't started dancing around with comments like, "it all depends on what you consider sex". THAT sort of weasling around makes me crazy.

If Manny mans up and says, I did it, I was wrong, I apolgize to my fans, my peers and the game of baseball - I'll move on. Same with Papi. Until that day and those words, I am a very angry fan regardless of which team they played for when they screwed up.

Good guess BL but not quite right: I started paying attention when McGwire first defied "baseball reality" with his season. Something seemed truly unreal about the guy. I had seen too many players over too many seasons to believe his performance was natural.

Bonds? Never liked the guy's attitude from the first time I read about him and his treatment of the fans WAY back when. When he passed Aaron, a favorite of mine from the days when I followed the Milwaukee Braves - I was resigned to the fact the world had changed. Not angry, resigned.

The day that I first got angry about all of this was the day that McGwire sat in front of Congress and side-stepped every question that came his way. Why then? Cause I have a really hard time accepting BS. Making a mistake, cheating, is one thing but lying about it, refusing to admit it and apologize for it - that's when I get wound up. Want a silly example? Your wife catches you cheating. Do you deny and lie, say something stupid like "it wasn't me" - or do you say, "You're right, I'm wrong, please accept my heart felt apologies". Another example? I would have been much better with Bill Clinton's legacy if only the guy hadn't started dancing around with comments like, "it all depends on what you consider sex". THAT sort of weasling around makes me crazy.

If Manny mans up and says, I did it, I was wrong, I apolgize to my fans, my peers and the game of baseball - I'll move on. Same with Papi. Until that day and those words, I am a very angry fan regardless of which team they played for when they screwed up.

ok, do you believe Canseco more now?

Easy to believe somebody in the HOF was a user,right?

Mitchell you sound like me, Same feelings, the congress thing really got me.. it really showed how much power these guys thought they had. they sat their and scolded the govt. like how dare you question US. don't you know who WE are.. WE catch run and throw and yes you must pay us multi mil. and don't dare ask us any more questions.. we catch we run we throw, we take millions.. I would NEVER want them to apologize, never , because it will be so they can get more muti mil contract or crocodile tear their way to the HOF,

Honestly BWP? I don't think I do sound like you. I don't think the players thought they were powerful. I think they thought they could weasle-word their way out of the issue. I don't like weasley guys, I don't like BSers so I didn't like McGwire that day.

And Congress had no chance of geting these guys to "confess", they never do have a chance at that. In this country, as you know, you can't be forced to testify against yourself or incriminate yourself. And just because a political body like Congress is powerLESS doesn't make the people they question powerFUL. It just makes the whole thing "for show".

Unlike you, I DO want an apology and, again unlike you, I don't begrudge them their healthy contracts. No one is forcing the owners to pay them those amounts. No one is forcing anyone watch games on YES which enriches the Steinbrenners or NESN which makes Henry even more money to add to his billions.

For me, this is all about the game of baseball and honesty. It isn't about money, nor is it about power, nor is it about trash-talking a player because he's paid a lot of money or he plays for a team that plays against "my" chosen team. This is about playing the game the right, honest way and being honest with the fans of the game and "your" team. Integrity ...

Have a good evening everyone. Tough loss tonight. We'll get 'em tomorrow.

Good day Mitchell, hope you had a good night sleep, If you don't like BSers or weasles. you don't think they talk down to the people who questioned them? Or lied, or were indignant? pompas , i can go on, is it that you just didn't like Mcguire that day ? but the rest of his baseball life you did? they all do think they are above reproach ,thats why they lie, even under oath..your right nobody can force you to Confess, but thats why you go under oath so if and when you get caught their is a price to pay, Also if they give you immunity you Must talk or take a contempt count and face jail time, I didn't say they were powerful ,isaid they think they are. like i said earlier congress is to blame also for letting ball players off the hook , if they were not going to assert their power don't have the show as you call. Again i think you should read my post a little more carefully before you spout bitterness , my anger toward these bums is because they take down a great sport, for greed and play these i'm a nice guy routine..Before Arod got caught i thought they should give him a contract. I don't begrudge free enterprise or negotiating a tough high paying contract, But listen clearly.. THEY TOOK the MONEY TAKING DRUGS, THEY Tarnished the game.. Thats what I said that I agree with You . My Opinion again is NOT about Who I root for.. I ROOT for BASEBALL.AND what it means to the kids that can't compete with drug takeing cheaters. If you say it is about honesty I don't remember posting anything but the INTEGRITY of the game. So I can guess you agree that they should get paid tens of million regardless of tearing apart BAseball. But like you said you most certanily are entitled to your opinion , and i welcome it even though i don't agree or understand it..when i post i ask for input from you guys to get views , i vented my displeasure with the people who take drugs and cheat not to you or anyone else here. and it was a tough loss, but girardi is back in the burn everyone out mind set again, hughes should have not come out to pitch another inn. he must use the other guys there if they fail ok, aceves is burnt , now this kid 3inn. mo everyday. coke or melancon should have come out for that inn. but that is my opinion.. thanks for the input mitchell. keep it coming my eyes and ears are open.

were there games played yesterday Mitchell? Hardly knew it...lol

good morning , i had posted a response for mitchell, last night, it has not shown up? will it be posted??thanks, and a response to peter

Posted it now BWP, I do sleep occasionally ;-)

I think a very simple example that needs to be said regarding what players that prolonged their careers by taking PEDS did:

- imagine you are an outfield prospect in the Giants organization around the year 2000. You may not be a blue chip prospect but one that would normally get called up/sent down/called up. Unfortunately a player pushing 40+ is in your way and breaking all rules of decline by being the most productive in his career.

You never get your shot to try to make the big league team, you age a couple more years, your chance dwindles. You never got the thrill or money of being on a ML roster.

One example of what PEDs may have done to a level of players that gets overloooked.

Never mind the assault on baseball and the records, integrity. Numerous fringe players got pushed downwards by lengthening the productivity curves of players. Which, by the way, increased desire/need for those fringe players to take PEDs along the way too.

BWP? You and I are going to have to agree to disagree about some things. 'nuff said.

Peter thank you, I have days ands nights mixed up some what.. Mitchell a debate and sharing views is what this is all about, if we all agreed what can we learn and would be boring..

you know what I would like to have happen going forward?

How about a website with test results by team/player since testing went into play.

Show us the test results and how often each player was tested.

Continue it going forward, public information.

If I can find out how much my neighbor sold his house for as a matter of public record why not this?

I am not convinced that the testing in place right now is restrictive and stopping the problem.

BL? Hi. I know what posting on a blog is about, but when you say, "if we all agreed what can we learn and would be boring.."

I don't understand what you mean and I'd like to. Pls try again?